The Professor and Heather Anne
Although we don't have all the answers, we hope we can encourage and excite you.
We're here sharing our lives to inspire you to make the most of the second half of your life.
Join us each week, my friends, where you're sure to get a smile -- from lessons learned to mishaps, the adventures go on for miles...here on The Professor and Heather Anne.
The Professor and Heather Anne
Catfish, Red Flags, And A Motorcycle Ride That Never Happened
Middle‑age dating isn’t a sequel; it’s a rewrite—with sharper priorities, stronger boundaries, and a deeper hunger for peace. We open up about meeting online, the non‑negotiables that guided us, and the practical ways we kept safety front and center while still leaving room for delight. From faith and politics to health and independence, we unpack the criteria that actually matter when your life is already full and your time is precious.
We get candid about scams, flattery traps, and the subtle tells of fake profiles. You’ll hear the exact steps we use to vet matches—cross‑platform checks, quick phone and video calls, public first dates with check‑ins—and why momentum matters more than marathon texting. Then we dig into compatibility the dating apps can’t score: a shared sense of humor, acceptance of quirks and neurodiversity, and language that builds resilience. One story starts with a burst pipe and ends with confidence, all because encouragement replaced helplessness and “ruined” left our vocabulary.
There’s also the messy middle: a Valentine’s Day breakup driven by fear, a rebound date that clarified everything, and the exercise that aligned us—five non‑negotiables, compared in full daylight. To pressure‑test the fit, we took a two‑week California run: conference halls, family meetups, beach towns, and freeway chaos. Travel revealed what bios can’t—how we plan, pivot, and treat each other when things go sideways. If you’re navigating love in your 50s or 60s, you’ll find practical strategies, honest reflection, and proof that mature romance can be both serious and full of laughter.
If this conversation helps you rethink your rules, share it with a friend who needs hope, subscribe for weekly episodes, and leave a quick review with your top non‑negotiable—we’d love to hear it.
And this is the kind of thing which I would have thought I can't do it. The way you said it, it just sort of like a lit of fire. So yeah, I can do this.
SPEAKER_00:Your next favorite podcast pick starts now. Here's the Professor and Heather Anne.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Professor and Heather Anne.
SPEAKER_02:Although we don't have all the answers, we hope we can encourage and excite you. We're here sharing our lives to inspire you to make the most of the second half of your life.
SPEAKER_01:So we met three years ago on a dating app. And as everyone knows, dating is nowadays in particular, is very difficult, very challenging. And I think especially for the middle-aged and older. So we're going to start by talking about how we went into uh the online dating scene. And so what were what were some of the ways you were thinking about posting your profile and the sort of man you were looking for? What were some deal breakers, like things that were like absolutely essential or absolutely unacceptable?
SPEAKER_02:Um he had to be a good kisser. He had to be established in his career, couldn't be living and sleeping on mom's couch.
SPEAKER_01:Um are there any middle-aged men who are sleep, still sleeping on their mother's couch?
SPEAKER_02:I believe there's quite a few. You'd be surprised. Um I also had um faith. He had to um believe in God and be willing to go to services and celebrate the holidays. What about you?
SPEAKER_01:Well, for me it was essential that a woman have no children living at home. Or or it might have been acceptable like to have a child who's 17 and about to fledge from the nest, but I was not, I was not gonna I was not gonna be the stepdad.
SPEAKER_02:You didn't want to start a second family?
SPEAKER_01:I certainly didn't. I I know I know I know men who have done that. One of my mentors from when I was in grad school, a professor, he at the age of about 60, he got married for the second time and had a couple more children. And I look at that and I think uh, well, you know, as it says in the book of Ecclesiastes, for to everything there is a season. And for me, the season of doing things like changing diapers and chasing a toddler around the house, uh that's that's that's long over with. So that was one. Um another one was political, and it really shouldn't be this way. It it it should be possible to have relationships across political boundaries, in and in normal times it is, but we don't live in normal times. And so it was important that a woman not be uh leftist. And third, it was important that a woman be um cheerful, upbeat. Um so looking at the profiles on the dating apps, I found it remarkable how how many so I I set for my age range of of of who I was looking for, I put 50 to 64. And a lot of the women, just in their photographs, they looked they looked depressed or even angry. And um and so you know that that's like immediately immediate red flag.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, but I wasn't smiling in my you weren't you weren't smiling.
SPEAKER_01:You weren't smiling, but you didn't look you did not look depressed or angry.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's good to know.
SPEAKER_01:So there are there are a number of major differences between what's important in looking for a partner in middle age from when you're 20 or 30. And so a couple things that come to mind. Well, one of them is what I just mentioned about the you know, the difference between wanting uh someone who will be a good parent when you're 20 uh compared to wanting someone who doesn't have any troublesome kids hanging around when you're 60. And another one is is the importance of health. Okay, so when you're 20, you know, you can you know you can pretty much assume that anyone that age is is healthy, but you know, when you get to be 60, you start to think about um you know how many years before I'd have to be a nursemaid to this person. Um So you know, what were some things that changed for you? This is a it's a serious business.
SPEAKER_02:Dating in your 50s and 60s is very serious business. Um I um obviously differences are is when you're younger, you're looking to is he going to be a good dad? Is he going to be a good provider? Um, but obviously I wasn't looking for that. This go-around at this age. I'm able to support myself. I um didn't I have not having any more children? My boys are grown, so there was not going to be any more children. So I I truly believe that you're looking for something different. You're looking for somebody that's more compatible, somebody that's going to have a sense of humor, um somebody that you're just going to be more friends, I think. Not in the friend zone. That's not where I'm going. But you really have to like each other in your 50s. And you're I feel like when you're younger, you're constantly you're changing, you're you're growing, you're evolving, hope. Hopefully, you're doing that in your marriage. But you're already established when you're in your 50s and 60s, and even older, you're already established, you're already who the person you're going to be for the most part. So it has to be somebody that you generally you genuinely like.
SPEAKER_01:And who can because the older we get, the more like ourselves we get, the more of our idiosyncratic quirks kind of become, they become more and more pronounced. And so it has to be someone who's who's comfortable with with all those quirks.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, like my ADHD, and when I get out of control. Need to have somebody that can handle that and not. I feel like when you're younger in relationships, you are criticized more. If that's the way to think of it. And so you're wanting somebody that's just you're you're just more mature. You're just wanting somebody that's going to approach my ADHD in a mature way instead of just telling me I'm too much. Because that's something I've heard my whole entire life. But not one single time have you ever told me in these three years that I'm too much. You just, when I'm completely out of control, you'll be like, ADHD, ADHD. And you'll let me run around the house and do whatever I have to do to, you know, bring myself back to the moment so that we can accomplish anything that we need to accomplish at that time.
SPEAKER_01:So there's in some ways of there's still a person still has there's still personal growth ahead, uh even in in middle age and even in old age, but there are some things which about a person which they're just that that's the way they are. Like their personality has kind of solidified. And so uh if you if a partner can't uh accommodate to that, then that the things aren't are not gonna work.
SPEAKER_02:Like little quirks, like you have little quirks that I think are funny, like what you do this thing when you're talking, and when you get really involved, I call it like the trifecta effect, because you have you like touch your nose, then you touch your glasses each side. So it's a little quirky thing. So um, and it's not something you're aware of because I've asked you did you do that when you were in lectures? And you're like, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I I've not been able to find any videos of my lectures, so I I can't answer this question.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm curious of how long you've been doing that. And there's no way to know, but it's cute, it's enduring. So one other thing we need to jump into is safety. So dating online seems to be the norm. It seems to be that that's how a majority of couples are coming together now. And unfortunately, there's so much fake things out there, people get catfished. We have been watching different um documentaries about people who have been swindled um by somebody, and we're talking like a lot of money. So, what are some of the things? So, I know as a woman, and I've pretty much done this my whole entire life, even when I was younger and dating and going out with somebody I didn't really know, I always would let somebody know where I'm going. Um, but even now, even though you're you were in your 60s, you seemed relatively harmless.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and and I had an online identity that you could check out before meeting me.
SPEAKER_02:But that doesn't prove who you are in personal life, that just shows who you are in your professional life. People can be very different, and especially with my background of the childhood trauma and stuff, I'm very suspicious of people. So I sit pictures, I let my girlfriends know this is where I'm going, um, that type of thing. And I think that's common for a woman. And if and and if you are online dating and you're not doing that, you need to be doing that. You need to let people be aware of where you're going, when to expect to hear back from you, a picture of the guy, because it's just it's a crazy world we live in now, and you just have to make sure you're protecting yourself at all times. But what from a man's standpoint, what did you do?
SPEAKER_01:So I was so this this um dating website, J Date, so it's a Jewish dating website, and I was on it for more than a year, yeah, about a year and four months uh before we met. And early on, there were I had uh exchanges of messages with what I I came to realize were were fake, fake accounts. And uh and and from what I've read, what they were leading up to would have been asking for money, but it never got to that point. But after a while I got so I could, I think I could tell when when they were fake.
SPEAKER_02:And what what would be a number one thing?
SPEAKER_01:Like too good, too good to be real, uh, sort of too too flattering, too kind of gushy.
SPEAKER_02:Um I got several of those, like the second text. Oh, you're so beautiful. I would love to meet you. I'm already like uh infatuated, infatuated with you, and you're just like you don't even know me. Who who are you talking to?
SPEAKER_01:So there's that. There's the I'm not in town right now.
SPEAKER_02:That's the famous one.
SPEAKER_01:Oh so I think I think J Date, from what I could see, is pretty good about like removing the fake accounts. There were a couple of times when I started exchanging text messages and then and then and then and then there was I got a notice saying that this this this this person's not.
SPEAKER_02:And I think a lot of the top dating accounts try to dating sites try to do that, but you still have to protect yourself. You still have to be aware, be cautious. I think one of the other things from from the research we've been doing on the online dating stuff is a lot of these uh several women made comments that they had never, especially at the beginning, talked to them on the phone. So if you're not having, if it's not flowing, like you're going from the dating site to then you start, okay, well, here's my number, we can start talking, we can start texting, to wanting to meet in person and in in a relatively decent timeline where you know it's not six months from now, or if you live out out of state from each other, there is a little bit difference there. But I I think that when we talk about us dating, we met online and people were constantly asking me. I have a lot of women my age asking me about how we met. That I I don't just say, oh, we met online. I I I want to have conversation about that with people that it's a great opportunity, but make sure you're protecting yourself, make sure you're being safe.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So even on our first date, I I I told a friend where I was gonna be, and I actually in the middle of the date I went to the bathroom and texted him from the bathroom. Yeah, okay, haven't been abducted.
SPEAKER_02:So he knew I wasn't going to kidnap you.
SPEAKER_01:I knew by then that you were safe. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I was gonna put you in my trunk and take you off somewhere. So, what are some of the crazy like one of the things that was big that I tell people about sometimes is that I still wasn't sure I really wanted to date. And I was on one of the Facebook pages for singles in our area, and I put out there that I just wanted to have a motorcycle ride. I didn't want to go on a date. You know, we could meet, it needed to be safe. He needed to know I wasn't crazy, I needed to know he wasn't crazy because I'm getting on a motorcycle with this person. Right. But I didn't really want to have lunch. I just, my ex and I had a motorcycle. We did a lot of motorcycle rides. I just had been wanting to go on one. And several guys reached out and said, Hey, I'll take you on a motorcycle ride. And we talked a little bit, because again, I had to make sure he was safe. I was getting on a motorcycle and just riding off into the sunset. But what I found was several of them, all of them, all of them were like, Well, let's go for a drink, let's let's go to dinner, let's, and I was like, no, I just want a motorcycle ride. I'll pay for the gas. I don't have a problem with that. Um, I think one guy was like, hey, I'll I'll give you 50 bucks to take me on a motorcycle ride. Well, I would feel more comfortable, and I'm just like, no, I don't, I didn't want anything serious. So I had to wind up blocking all the there was probably about five of them, and I had to block them because I just I just wanted the friendship zone. I didn't want to get serious or do anything because I was just dipping my toes into the water.
SPEAKER_01:But you can understand, right? Why why a man would expect that a motorcycle ride is a date.
SPEAKER_02:No, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I just think differently, so I don't. And it was me, in it it made me sad because I didn't get to have that motorcycle ride. So I'm gonna have to turn you into a motorcycle ride.
SPEAKER_01:So what was one of your crazy dates? So in let's see, January 2022, so after about six months uh on this on this dating website, um, I um started, I sent messages with uh uh a woman living, so I was still in Los Angeles, and this woman lived in the Midwest. And so then we had a series of telephone dates and Zoom dates, and seemed to be getting along very well. And and I suggested that I could um come and visit her. So this was March 2022, and I'd gotten the plane tickets and made all the arrangements, and then just a couple days before I was going to fly there, she said, you know, I've decided it just it can't work between us, and and sorry, I don't want you to visit. I don't want to hear from you again. And um for about 24 hours I was really depressed. And then I realized that this is all for the best. That this just wouldn't have wouldn't have worked at all. We um just to take one example, uh, this was you know, you know, the the the pandemic was already winding down and and people were coming back to normal, but she wasn't. Uh she was she you know was saying enough, you know, when we when we go out to public places when you visit, we're gonna have we're gonna wear we're wearing masks. And and um so I realized that uh you know, if I'd if I'd actually started a relationship with her, she would have had me masking and vaxxing to the end of my days. Uh and and you know, it's totally incompatible uh with the way I saw things. Um and I think it what what what I what happened was just getting this kind of attention from a woman was intoxicating and and caused me to overlook all the sort of practical aspects of, well, you know, could I really you know be compatible with this person?
SPEAKER_02:I think that needs to be like another episode. We need to jump into that because from a woman's standpoint it was more cautious, more I'm gonna keep you at bay, even though you know, uh hadn't had attention for quite a few years. It I I felt like I was more closed off. Maybe I'm not sure I really want to do that, and I'm hearing that a lot from women my age. Case in point is last Friday we went and had a couples massage, and it was great, and I'm very thankful that you like to do those things.
SPEAKER_01:I I did I had never done those things before, and now I really enjoy them.
SPEAKER_02:Learned the better ways of life.
SPEAKER_01:The finer things in life.
SPEAKER_02:That's it. Um, but it was the end, and we were chit-chatting uh with our massage therapist, and we had just mentioned that we were starting up, we had started a podcast. We had recorded that morning, and we were telling her the different things that were our topics, and one of them being dating at our age, and she's 50 years old, and very with the very sad look on her face, she's like, I've I've given up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was I I I couldn't I didn't say anything, couldn't think of anything to say.
SPEAKER_02:I would I I I hope I was encouraging in telling her that you know, don't ever say never because you never know what's going what's coming around the corner. But it just kind of solidified basically what we're talking about, and I think we probably need to dive in more at another time about the differences between men and women dating, even at our age. And I think men might be more open to love and women might be more a little bit more closed off at this age. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I I to me it was it was remarkable how I was back in this mindset that I hadn't been in since since I was in my 20s of of um of being open well being open to being intoxicated uh in that way by a woman's attention. It was just it felt like um so yeah, okay, my academic work is in evolutionary psychology, and so that's the way I talk sometimes. Like these sort of uh these built-in, evolved modules in my brain were kind of after decades of being dormant or like being reactivated. Um but yes, of course, there it's somewhat different for a woman.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I think we're we have lost at love, and then the thought of maybe possibly being hurt again or um past traumas, childhood traumas, I think that has a tendency to make women my age just a little bit more standoffish.
SPEAKER_01:More wary.
SPEAKER_02:More oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:So what what what are some of the ways that we keep our relationship thriving?
SPEAKER_02:One of them is whatever shenanigans I come up with. You're willing, let's go do it. Um I the number one thing, all kidding aside, the number one thing is that we're very supportive of each other's dreams. So I am in transition of changing careers and positions and different things like that. And that kind of all came about when we met, and you've been supportive of that, you've been encouraging. Um you've been my biggest cheerleader and have never once told me, oh, that's just too crazy, or are you sure you can do that?
SPEAKER_01:I believe in you.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And I feel that. I think that that's one of the things. Um humor. We laugh, we laugh a lot. We laugh at each other, we laugh. We laugh at ourselves.
SPEAKER_01:And we and we laugh at the same things. Uh, I you know, I think that like almost anyone would say, oh, yes, it's it's important that our partner have a good sense of humor. But what's a good sense of humor is different for everybody. But different people different people find different things funny, and we we find the same things funny.
SPEAKER_02:We find the same things funny, but I also have a very dry sense of humor and maybe laugh at things or make jokes about things um that people don't necessarily get, but it comes from my childhood. Instead of being sad or depressed about my childhood, I actually have to find humor in it and look at the good things that did happen in my childhood that I was fortunate enough to have. Um and you get that. So that's because I've had some people just kind of look at me like, what is she talking about? That's not funny. That's not funny, and it's like, well, it is funny because you either have to cry about it or you have to laugh about it. And so I would rather laugh about it. My sis, when you get my sisters and I together, then it's even crazier the things that we come up with and laugh about our childhood. And you get that. So that that is something that's always um helped us in our relationship. What about you?
SPEAKER_01:Well, on a uh sort of you know, uh moment to moment or day-to-day uh scale, uh we always make sure to express affection for each other. Yeah. So to say, I love you, I'm very grateful for you, and to to because it's it's unfortunately it's too easy for people to feel like, well, of course, of course, my partner knows that I love them. I don't have to say it all the time. But is it important to say it? Uh it uh it it strengthens your bond, just the saying it and hearing it, uh, rather than taking it, just taking it for granted.
SPEAKER_02:It's also feeling it. I feel that. Um one of the things I talk about a lot. I've talked about on here, I've talked about I talk about with friends, uh, people, um, professionals um who know about my childhood and stuff is that I feel it for the first time, I feel safe and my soul is at peace. So when you say those to me, um I truly feel those words, and we openly use those words all every day. Um one thing that I do a little bit different is I tell you more than I'm crazy about you, than I love you. What are your feelings on when I do that?
SPEAKER_01:It's it's it's what I've come to expect.
SPEAKER_02:Do you feel?
SPEAKER_01:I I get I I my heart lifts every time Heather says that.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know why I started doing that with you, but I just feel that to me it's more the feelings behind the words, and I I use those words with my boys, I've used, you know, I loved my ex-husband, all of that, but I truly am crazy about you. Like I just for the first time in my life, I've heard people talk about it, but it's just like I can't get enough of you. I like being around you, I like being in our house together. Um I really feel like I'm crazy about you. In addition to loving you.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. It does make sense, yes. So, do you want to say a little bit about your childhood for listeners who maybe who didn't hear the previous episode?
SPEAKER_02:I I just grew up I grew up in trauma and it was um, you know, pretty bad. By the time I was five years old, we were already being locked in our rooms, windows nailed shut so we couldn't escape. Um just that was not openly talked about. Love and just wasn't talked about in my household. It was something I had to learn, and I'll be honest, I probably didn't truly understand until I had my oldest son. And the first time I held him was probably that this is what love is. Now that we got real heavy. Old bringing in old baggage, letting go of things from our previous marriages. Having to learn those things about ourselves, um, I think was probably one of the whole hardest things. And um learning to, especially at our age, being intimate with each other, um, especially since we both had long-term marriages. Um, I think that was something that we really had to work on and had to figure all of that out and what worked for us. And talking about stuff. I know both of us did not really talk things out in our previous marriages. So that was, I think, something that we had to make sure that we did from the beginning.
SPEAKER_01:So something that I had trouble with was overinterpreting things that Heather said. So and she would be stating facts, and I would interpret it as criticism. So if I would just do some household chore, you know, or or cook a meal. And she would say something about it, and uh I would so I I'm I'm I'm getting much better at this, but uh early on uh I would leap to the conclusion that oh oh so oh you didn't like it, so I I did that wrong, huh?
SPEAKER_02:And uh and it wasn't that you did it wrong, I was just wanting to know why you did it that way, and is this going to work in our relationship? Or it, you know, just a some simple thing of cleaning and cooking and different things. Again, we were learning to be with each other in a relationship, and I'm a very he you have learned by now, I'm a very I ask a lot of questions. I'm very inquisitive about everything, like why did you do that? Or, you know, because it's not that, especially at the very beginning, I ask a lot of questions because it's my way of getting to know you, right? And and understand you, and understand, you know, your quirks and how you think. And I did notice that right away that you took it more as criticism, and that was something that we had to be willing to both openly discuss because I was not criticizing you, I was just trying to understand you better.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, so it is it has taken a while. Now I I get it, at least most of the time.
SPEAKER_02:So, what one of the things I've had to learn too is I'm a boy mom. So um there's a fine line being a boy mom with you know, I wanted my boys to be sensitive, but also, you know, they're boys. And from my understanding, raising boys and girls are very different. I came from a family of girls. But one of the things I always did with my boys was encouraging and stuff. So I learned that I needed to be even more so with you. Not fake or anything like that, but encouraging because I I did get a lot of and one of the things I did with my boys was I always encouraged them, like when they'd come and say, Oh, I can't do that. Well, who says you can't do that? Why don't you try and see if you're going to like it? You know, one day my older son came home and said, I want to play tennis. And he was in the eighth grade, and it was like, You've never played tennis before, you've never had a racket. And he's like, But I think I'm gonna do that, okay? And he was amazing and and did a great.
SPEAKER_01:So I just kind of used that concept with you and tried to encourage you that so one of the now we're gonna talk about major moments in our relationship when when we when we realized how how per fit, how perfectly fit for each other we were. And so one of the, and this is not gonna sound it's not gonna sound very romantic, but it was so we'd have been dating for just um like two, two and a half months or so, and it was so I drove from Stillwater to Tulsa to spend uh the weekend with you, and there was this uh one of those Arctic blasts, you know, temperature was about zero, and there was ice on the roads. And while I was uh at your house, I get this call from my next door neighbor, and she says, There's water gushing out from under your garage door. So I drove back to still water, and um what had happened was a a pipe had frozen and burst, and so there was quite a lot of water damage in the house, including the living room carpet was soaked and it was ruined. And so I called one of the one of the several of those remediation companies. But of course, this had happened to a lot of people, and so they said, well, you know, we're not gonna be there for like three or four days. And um and so I was just you know sitting there, there's this moldering carpet, and I was I was talking to you, and I said, I I don't know what I can do. And and and you said, Do you have any tools? And I said, Well, I have this little toolbox, there's like a hammer and a screwdriver, and you said, take the screwdriver and start taking up that carpet and and and roll it up as much as possible. And this is the kind of thing which I would have thought, uh, I can't do it. I can't I can't do anything with tools, I'm just not practical. But the way you said it, it just it sort of like like lit a fire. I said, yes, I can do this. And so I did it. And then when when finally three or four days later, when the the the they came to do the repairs, I said, you know, that was that was pretty, that was about as good of self self-help, self-care, self-repair that you could have possibly done. And so it was that moment I realized how much you believe in me and are able, willing and able to help me uh move on to things, even things which I never thought I could do.
SPEAKER_02:And we still encourage each other. And what's one of the words that we cannot use in our household anymore?
SPEAKER_01:Ruined.
SPEAKER_02:Because nothing's ruined. You may have to change, you may have to fix something, but nothing is absolutely ruined. So that was a word you used a lot that just I didn't understand.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So farewell to that word.
SPEAKER_02:So what was our deciding factor? Why did we decide to go to get engaged and get married?
SPEAKER_01:And well, the prelude to our getting engaged, or engaged to be engaged, was breaking up. So you broke up with me on Valentine's Day.
SPEAKER_02:You love telling people it's you were very persistent on it. It was Valentine's Day when she broke up with me.
SPEAKER_01:And what you said was you just you showed me your calendar all for the next couple months, all these business appointments and meetings and obligations and commitments, and said, I just I don't I don't have time. I don't have time for a man.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I said I don't have time for a man. I think I said I don't have time for a relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Okay, yeah, that's a difference.
unknown:That's a precise.
SPEAKER_02:So yes, um, I broke up partly because I was just getting scared. I think that's the best word. Scared for the first time, as weird as it sounds. Uh for the first time I felt safe. Not that I was not unsafe. I don't need to make that clear on my previous marriage, but just my whole being, my soul. Um, when you grow up in trauma, one of the things that happens to a kid when they wake up in the morning, it's not just jump out of bed, it's lay there for a few minutes, see what the house is saying, and what are the noises in the house. It could have been an incident that happened overnight that was still going on. It could have started first thing in the morning, and that's how you kind of plan your day. When we started dating exclusively, I had noticed that that was going away, that I would just wake up and be ready to start my day and um not listen to the house. And that was the first time in my life that I realized I hadn't had any of that, and that actually scared me because what happens if it didn't work? What happens if I put in all this time into this relationship, and then you tell me, no, it's just too much for me. Um because you didn't come from the childhood that I came from, and no matter how much healing and everything I've done, I know little things come up here or there and um have to be dealt with, or um, you know, just I just wasn't sure that I was willing to take that chance. And so I was willing to break up with you to protect yourself from right to to protect myself from possibly being hurt. How did you feel? So it took you it was it took you a little bit to comprehend what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Well, it was it was it was devastating, but well, okay, I went r right back to a dating app. Not not not J Date, but um match.com. And and and and went on a date within just about a a week? What was it? About a I don't even think it was a week. It was just days.
SPEAKER_02:It was days. I was actually very surprised.
SPEAKER_01:And and and you were still in touch with me, so you knew I was going on this date.
SPEAKER_02:I did, and we had decided it was best that you go on a date, and if I wanted to go on a date, that that would probably be best to make sure that this really was what we wanted. Stay together, break up. And then you went on your date with the nurse.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, this was you know, perfectly nice woman, but not even comparable to Heather. And how did you feel knowing I was on this date?
SPEAKER_02:I was actually um, for the first time in my life, a little bit out of control. I actually had was having a panic attack. I'd never had one of those ever in my entire life. I call up my girlfriend going, I don't know what's going on. I can't breathe, I'm all freaked out. And she's like, You're having a panic attack. And I'm like, no, I don't have those. I don't know what you're talking about. Standing at my office, running around my office on my phone, looking out the window, like I was expecting you to show up or something, but I was just like, I don't know, what's going on? And she's like, Oh, I think you really like this guy. And I'm just like, What? No, that can't be it.
SPEAKER_01:So then you invited me to come over for the weekend with and to make a list, a list of character of characteristics, traits that would be essential in we had to come up so it was suggested that we come up with five non-negotiables on what we wanted in a relationship or marriage.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And um after your long date that I still tease you about to this day, after your long date.
SPEAKER_01:It was like three or four hours.
SPEAKER_02:A vlog date. Um, at least it was a longer than our first date. And um we needed to just make this list and decide I had already known that I was way more in love with you than I expected, and you had truly affected my life in such a positive way that I didn't want to let that go. And so you came over for the weekend, we had our five, you had your five, I had my five, and then we just kind of exchanged them. And what did it wide?
SPEAKER_01:And uh they were pretty much the same list.
SPEAKER_02:They were almost exactly the same.
SPEAKER_01:So we decided so we were back together and engaged to be engaged.
SPEAKER_02:So we decided we're moving forward, we will get engaged um within the next couple of months. And then we did get engaged. Yes, that was but we kind of didn't share with family or really share it with a lot of people. Um and then in June.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we got engaged, it was April 2023.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and then uh we just kind of kept it quiet for a little bit. We didn't post anything. I didn't post anything on social media. I'm more on social media than you. And basically, we went to California and made it like this whole big trip. You had a conference to go to in Palm Springs. We're both from California, so what an opportunity to go to our home state and experience that together. Hadn't I hadn't been to Palm Springs in 30 years or so. So great opportunity to see your world, the academic world, that I've never been a part of, and uh fascinated me right off the bat.
SPEAKER_01:You said, I want to see you with your nerd friends. That's it.
SPEAKER_02:And it was so much fun, and I enjoyed them so much. And they have, even though I am not in the academic world, they've been very accepting of me and all of my questions, because I'm always asking questions.
SPEAKER_01:And she went to the poster session at the conference and and uh and asked the poster presenters uh questions, and they were probably undoubtedly questions they'd never heard before.
SPEAKER_02:Have you thought about this? What about that? But they were all very gracious, and um and it really was a lot of fun. But we took that trip because that was a weekend conference, and we took that and spread it over. We did it decided to do two weeks, so we decided to um at the last minute you decided you wanted to go to Bakersfield, and I'm like, we don't really need to, but okay.
SPEAKER_01:So we rented a car in Palm Springs, drove to Bakersfield.
SPEAKER_02:Drove to Bakersfield, you met my uncle, and uh we went to a a Basque restaurant that I grew up going to. Um downtown, the bad part of downtown Bakersfield, had a great lunch, sat, you know, sat and talked to him for several hours, and then we walk us in the restaurant and SWAT is all around us. People are in handcuffs, up against the wall.
SPEAKER_01:They were announcing through megaphones, you know.
SPEAKER_02:We're coming, and I just kind of looked at you and was like, um, welcome to Bakersville. And then my uncle, I still was surprised this day. My uncle was just like not phased at all. He was great to see him, nice meeting you, and just walks off the opposite way. But we stayed one night there, then we drove over to Cambria, Cambria and Sam Sandman, stayed a couple of nights there. That was a place that um always has great memories of my childhood. That was a place where we would go and rent a beach house and be able to stay there for a week or two. Um during vacations, my dad I always had we always had great vacations uh because my dad never did anything during vacations. It was like he was on his best behavior. So vacations were always amazing. So that brought great memories, and I wanted to share that with you. You'd never been to that part of the state, right?
SPEAKER_01:And we had a couple's massage. That was the first massage I ever had.
SPEAKER_02:I started learning you about the pampering ways of life, getting you to appreciate those, and then we decided we needed to drive down to San Diego to meet your family.
SPEAKER_01:And um so you can see this is a stress test.
SPEAKER_02:This was a big stress test. Not only that, ladies will understand this, that I had to coordinate clothing and packing for four different locations because we were on Palm Springs for several days and you had to dress accordingly. We were in Bakersfield one night, which was fine, but I needed to keep all the clothes like this is Bakersfield's clothes, this is the beach clothes, this is San Diego's clothes, and uh we did remarkably well. We didn't have too many and a few. It wasn't perfect, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, it was perfect, but but at that we knew we could travel together.
SPEAKER_02:We could travel very well together. So and um that was the first time you learned that I drive really fast down the Los Angeles freeways.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Uh she thinks I drive too slow, and then he thinks I drive too fast. So uh, but you know, when you're in Los Angeles traffic, you have to go with the flow of traffic. But then we met your family and fell in love with them, and we had um a great time. I mean, it was really nice to experience that, know that we could travel was that's number one.
SPEAKER_01:Big thing. That's a big thing. Because, you know, when you're traveling together, you find out things about people that you don't in pretty much any other way. And because right, things things crop up that you know there's it's fun, but it you know it's also it's also stressful, and so um so that was an important thing to find out.
SPEAKER_02:And that was just basically the start of our traveling. We've been fortunate to travel in Europe and travel all over the country, and but I'm a great packer.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's amazing. I don't know how she does it.
SPEAKER_02:I have everything worked out. Every day you just get up, and when we travel, every day you just get up and go, what do I wear today?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:And I have it, here's your clothes for today.
SPEAKER_01:So I have complete faith that there's everything we need. It's gonna be there, and it's gonna be there when it's needed.
SPEAKER_02:But that was a good, that was a good trip. We really um really some good memories uh with that trip for sure. So we uh thank you for joining us here today. We hope uh where we talked about online dating, the safety of online dating, um, how make sure you travel with somebody before you marry them.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Make sure you travel together.
SPEAKER_01:About how dating in middle age, how it's ways it's different from dating when you're younger. Uh, we talked about the uh some of the ups and downs of our relationship.
SPEAKER_02:The things we had to learn.
SPEAKER_01:The things we had the things we had to learn from each other, and the how things we had to learn about how to how to get along, how to get past, how to keep leave the old package of the door, and bring that into a that was a really good thing.
SPEAKER_02:So we've we hope you enjoyed this episode. And so join us here each week, my friend. We are sure to get a smile from the lessons learned to miss out. The adventures come on from us here on the professor and heather Anne.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for listening to The Professor and Heather Anne.
